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The Supreme Court's historic gun case

Posted: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:52 AM by Barbara Raab

By Pete Williams, NBC News Justice correspondent

Not once in the history of the United States has the Supreme Court ever said what the Second Amendment means. That surprising fact is one reason why the case the justices are hearing today is likely to produce the most important ruling ever on gun rights.

The amendment itself is just 27 words long, interrupted three times by the punctuation fashionable at the time of the nation's founding: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Image: Handguns.To Dick Heller of Washington, DC, who wants to keep a handgun at home for personal protection, the words guarantee a personal, individual right to own a gun. His lawyers argue that the key phrase is "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms." The amendment's first words, dealing with a well regulated militia, state only one of many purposes for establishing that right, they argue, and do not limit its protections.

Heller sued after the city denied his application for a handgun permit. And though a trial judge ruled against him, finding as virtually every other court has that the Second Amendment's guarantee is limited to purposes of militias, the federal appeals court in Washington ruled 2-1 in his favor and struck down the city's handgun ban, the nation's strictest gun control law.

But the city of Washington argues that the first part of the amendment states the founders' only purpose, to protect the states from having their militias disarmed by a hostile and distant federal government.

"The amendment does not encompass having a gun for personal purposes," says Walter Dellinger, who represents the city. For that reason, the city says it did not violate the Constitution when it banned handguns in 1976, after concluding that existing laws did not adequately reduce gun violence.

The two sides each claim to find support in the history of the Bill of Rights and the writings of the founders. The city argues that the word "arms" means weapons and that the phrase "bear arms" refers to using them in a military context. "One does not bear arms against a rabbit or an intruder," Washington's legal brief argues.

But Heller's lawyers claim that the phrase was not solely a military one and that state constitutions drafted in the late 1700's guaranteed a right of citizens to "bear arms" in self defense. Besides, they say, militias were ad hoc, come-as-you-are organizations that had no central weapons stock. "In order for people to act as militias, they had to have their own weapons that they bring with them," says Alan Gura, arguing the case for Heller.

(FILES) This29 October 2006 file photo sThe legal showdown has generated intense interest. From Congress, 229 Republicans and 66 Democrats filed a brief supporting Heller. Vice President Dick Cheney took the highly unusual step of signing on in his capacity as President of the Senate. That put him at odds with the Bush Administration's formal position filed by the Justice Department, which argues that the amendment provides an individual right. But the government claims that the appeals court ruling is so sweeping that, if upheld, it could jeopardize federal gun laws.

A ruling that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual right to gun ownership, say gun control advocates, would instantly launch new challenges to gun restrictions nationwide. Heller's lawyer, Alan Gura, believes the impact would be more modest.

"Commonsense laws banning felons from owning guns or requiring background checks would be allowed. But it would take prohibition off the table," he says.

A contrary ruling, that gun ownership is constitutionally protected only for service in militias, would give state and local governments more authority to regulate firearm ownership, though many state constitutions would limit such restrictions.

"It would leave to the democratic process in each city and state to decide what level of regulation to have on guns," says Walter Dellinger, the city's lawyer.

A decision is expected by late June, but it's difficult to handicap how the court may rule, since the justices have never confronted the issue directly. The court's only relevant gun control case, in 1939, upheld a federal ban on sawed-off shotguns, but it did not squarely address what the Second Amendment means.

Editor's note: Pete Williams' report aired Tuesday on NBC Nightly News. Click here to watch.

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Pete nice report but look for a 5 to 4 vote in favor of Americans being able to have guns. It's good for the gun business and right now with a corrupt White House and a White House control majority Supreme Court with the 5 Justices who follow orders. The right to bear arms was written for the wilderness that confronted the US during the early days. That law is as much out dated and not needed as slavery. The Gun Companies are paying big bucks to get a law passed to increase their profit. You noticed with no gun control we have had a President assassinated, one shot at, senseless murders, children killing children and college students killed with those who can freely buy guns. Mr. Bush is bringing back the Wild Wild West to America. As Foreign countries are moving to be more civilized the United States is moving backward. Pete this is all about greed and it has nothing to do with law or protection of Americans.
We need to "seperate the question" as the saying goes. The constitution is written to assume that the people are good citizens and support and abide by the constitution. Therefore, the 2nd admendment ensures the common citizen can rally with his community to defend themselves, their home and community. First point.

The next needs to address the use of firearms by criminals. Restricting the wide rights of the nations citizens as one measure to inhibit a criminal goes against the concept of community. By the definition of "criminal", any use of a firearm is already proscribed.

It seems apparant that the ban on "assault guns" will be trashed. If the purpose of ownership of firearms is to take on the military forces of an invader, or a corrupt govenment, then logically, you would expect such militias to bring comparable firearms to the fight.
As a historical note, the colonial-era Minute Men had the high tech weapons in 1776. They had rifles while the british Soldier had smooth bore muskets.

Although the Founding Fathers did not know of AK-47s and full-auto fire, they faced the technology gap in the firearms industry - and chose not to consider it an exception to owning a firearm.

Masses of citizens owning assault guns? Owning such guns doesn't "change your brain" and go join a drug gang.
If you think Gun Control Laws will stop Gun violance then you need to take a long hard look at what has happened to Australia and the UK since their recent bans.
Criminals will get guns even if all gun production stopped worldwide, if not guns, bombs, bats, hammers, and lets not forget AIRPLANES. Criminals and terrorists are not law abiding citizens to begin with, they will obtain and use weapons, any weapons they can, are you going to eventually ban EVERYTHING that could be used as a weapon?

Our founding fathers meant and wanted only one thing. For the people of this country, then and now, to be able to decide when government oppression means it is time for a change, to be able to defend their home, community and country from any and all enemies. Any government with all the guns is free to do as they see fit with the citizens of thier country. Our founding fathers wanted to be sure the government of this country never held its citizens on a short rope dictating behavior and beliefs.

I doubt that the ban in DC has had any "real" effect on crime in that area, if it hand ended all the violence and stopped ALL gun crime it would be a different story, instead all it has done is make the ordinary man in D.C. a ready victiom to anyone that would break the law anyway.
Our Founding Fathers made this a "Right" of the common man in this country to own "arms" (which covers a wide variety of weapons besides Firearms) not only to defend himself but property and Livestock as well. Private ownership is exactly what this is all about, the Founding Fathers had just fought a war to free themselves from an oppressive Government and they knew that in the future it may come to that again and they provided for Americans a way to defend/protect themselves. In truth what the Founding Fathers intended was for the common citizenrey to be as well armed as any Government Troops so that they would be on equal footing weapons wise. Who do you think bought the cannons for early Americans? The average citizens thats who.
The Government had no standing Army with which too rely on, it was the citizens counting on one another to get the job done. So in my opinion todays American should be able to own whatever the U.S. military has in it's arsenel in case it came to a fight. I know a lot of people will think one does not have the right to own a M-1 Abrams Tank or a Stealth Fighter, but I truly believe that was the intent put forth behind the 2nd Amendment.
Washington DC has the toughest gun laws in the nation and they have been in effect since 1976 and yet they still have the highest crime rate in the Nation. So with 32 years of test results why does the Mayor think the gun ban is slowing down crime and taking guns off the street? I got an idea. Why doesn’t the Mayor initiate a gun buy back program? I mean they work. Right? NOT! Can you see all the crooks running to the police department to turn in their guns? Give me a break! Plus, it’s not the guns fault. That like saying it’s the cars fault you drove over somebody. You can take a loaded gun, pull the hammer back, lay it on the table and it won’t hurt anybody until some idiot picks it up, points it at somebody and pulls the trigger. You can pass all the gun laws you want and crooks are still going to have guns. Crooks don't obey laws. Only law-abiding citizens do. Laws only have an effect on the law-abiding citizen not the crook. We have too many gun laws now. We need to enforce our existing laws to the full extent. We need to put the crook away for good not a short sentence and let them back out to commit another crime. Society doesn't need these crooks amongst us. Put them away for good. Better yet impose the death sentence. A dead crook has never killed anybody. I am a firm believer in the 2nd amendment and strongly believe in the right of the citizen to own a gun and use it in defense of his/her home and family. I don’t care where you put the comma in the 2nd amendment or whether there is one or two. I will lay my gun down when all the crooks lay their guns down. Until then I am going to have a gun and be prepared to use it because I would rather be judged by 12 then carried out by 6.
Militias are the precursors of today's National Guard.  Back during militia days militias were private citizens that gathered together when called with their private weapons to do what was needed to protect society.  Militia's assumed private gun ownership.  Today, the National Guard has it's own weapons, this former Unit Armorer can attest to that, but the second amendment was plainly meant to protect private gun ownership, changing from a militia to the National Guard can't change that.  Only a moron would argue otherwise.
Mark M. said everything I wanted to say, but I'll add this:

I'm a 36 year old single woman who lives alone.  If someone breaks into my home, the cops will be there in 20-30 minutes (if I'm lucky - I live in a rural area).  By that time I could be assaulted or dead.  

I keep a handgun next to my bed.  It's not loaded, but a full clip is kept next to the gun.  I have the right to protect myself in this way and I will not give it up.  

People who are anti-gun need to realize that gun laws will only hurt law abiding citizens.  Do these people really think the criminals will stop using guns?  Wake up, people!  The problem is not guns.  It's the criminals.  
We have a National Socialist Party on the rise who preaches victimhood, goes after smokers, wants control of big corporations, and wants to take away guns, Nah nothing to worry about.
Why not enforce the laws that are already in place, FIRST, before we start something else that should not even be discussed! Laws should hold criminals responsible for what they do, instead of stripping the honest citizen of their 2nd amendment. Not only do people own guns for protection they also provide enjoyment for things such as hunting, target shooting and collecting. Enforcing the death sentence on criminals would greatly help change the crime rate. GUNS DON'T KILL, THE PEOPLE BEHIND THE TRIGGER DO!
Why does 27 words cause such confusion? The intent of the 2nd amendment is quite clear. Our forefathers made it loud and clear that this one amendment is the only amendment that ensures the balance of the amendments stay in full force.

Pistol, Shotgun, Rifle, Assault Rifle, Machine Gun, they are all a means to keep tyranny away.  Self regulation of arms will ensure a safer country.

“No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms.” Thomas Jefferson: Draft Virginia Constitution, 1776
One fact i have not yet seen brought into this argument is the fact of whether or not handgun related violences in dc have lessoned since the ban of handguns in dc in 1970. If this has not been brought up it needs to be. i found a list of different crimes from 1960-2006. i think many will be surprised by the rise of crime in 1980's and the uneven lowering and raising of crimes between 1970 and 2006 its just one fact that shows the ban has not proven any good to reducing those crimes. google district of columbia crime rates and i think you will find some fact sheets.
When the law imposes a "gun free" zone, such as Washington D. C., a killing field is created because only the criminals will have guns. The honest citizens will be prohibied from owning guns, thus being unable to protect themselves and their families.    
Seems Bush II wants to go out with a bang....He's loaded the Supreme Court to do his bidding....5-4 all the time...Does that tell you something? & yes i have a permit to carry...everyone should....wake up America & smell the roses...it's a jungle out there..
After reading all the prior comments, I have found many of my own thoughts shared by others.  The DC handgun ban test has proven that gun control does not keep guns from criminals. Those who run our prisons also don't allow weapons and yet they are present during riots, assassinations and shake downs.  The criminals will always... always... always steal, buy, make a weapon for use in harming a law abiding citizen in order to take something by force.

Our founding fathers understood the importance of making sure the citizens of the United States of America were armed to protect themselves, their families, their property, their country.  It's more difficult for a government to become abusive to its people if its people are able to protect themselves. It's so sad to hear and read the liberal viewpoints that would have our citizens become defenseless sheep.  These are the same liberals who want the government to take care of them.  They, no doubt, would also be the same liberals who would beg an armed citizen, a neighbor, to help protect them and/or their family in an emergency.  They need to stop living in a fantasy and deal with reality.  Not a “wild west movie reality”, but an “I better become prepared reality”. Just as they would prepare for a potential earthquake or house fire.
Guns laws only restrict those of us who have respect for the law and makes the law abider's easier targets for criminals. Simple really when you think about it.
never forget,even for an instant,the one and only reason someone has for taking your gun away is is to make you weaker than he is,so he can do something to you thatyou wouldn't allow him to do if you were equiped to pervent it.this goes for burglers,muggers and rapist,and even more so for policemen,bureaucrats,and politicians.                   -alexander hope
Gun Control worked for a few including Hitler.  When you disarm the people of a country, they are not able to fight back.  Please keep in mind that it was recently decided to let more criminals back onto the streets (meth), and we have a huge influx of illegal immigrants that commit crimes in our country every day, and as a country we are allowing them our social security.  Please wake up, and decide to not allow to be a victim, but rather stand up for our rights that many folks have given their lives to ensure for us and our children.  Guns ARE NOT EVIL.  Knives ARE NOT EVIL!  Some folks believe that because they do not like something, they want to take it away from anyone that does.  If you do not like our country, please leave in an orderly fashion.  Maybe to France.
I have been a shooter for about 29 years. I coach kids at our gun range when we have junior rifle shoots. I have taught both my children who are now adults how to CONTROL firearms. Remember, Ted Kennedy has done more damage to human Life at Chappaquiddick (?) than most lawful and legal gun owners. Ultimately your personal safety is Your responsibity. Not law enforcement
Well it looks to me like the vote so far is one Californian to eight Americans.
I just can't see how any politician, or judge, can take away the basic human right to self defense. How dare you deny anybody the right to defend oneself and one's property against all manners of threat! Washington DC is the test case for proving that strict gun laws DON'T lower crime rates!
In the Second Amendment the main clause is an absolute statement of the right of the people to own and bear arms. The subordinate clause that begins the Second Amendment gives one of many reasons why this right should not be infringed. I tend to be pro-gun control; however, the Constitution is clear about the rights of the people to own and bear arms.
I have been arround firerms all of my life. I dont fear them any more than an axe, knife or vehicle. Just respect them as a potetial life threatening object. The problem is what is in the human heart. Is it good or evil. Somehow if one wants to harm another, a weapon can be found, made or stolen. It doesn't have to be a firearm. It could even be a hand or fist. Some how , the polyanna idea of taking away all guns will suddenly stop all violent crimes is nonsense. Disarming the law abiding citizen will stop crime? Come on, give me a break. Some of the finest people I know own firearms. I believe that areas of the country that allow, concealed carry to back ground checked, firearm trained citizens reduce violent crime. Think about it. If you wanted to do harm to people and one or more reacted with equal or greater force back, would it be worth it. As far as the milita part of the 2nd, Ive been informed that this means like a state national guard unit. With arms sealed inside a vault for use in a national emergeny. Sort of an, "American Warsaw Pact". Come on! The original milita use the firearms the general citizens owned, in their homes. Yes that was then and this is now, we live in a civilized world. Or do we? The guy with the big stick and evil heart still clobers the one with the little stick or no stick at all. Watch the evening news.        
i honestly have never been able to understand this arguement.  it is absolutely clear what the organizers of this, the greatest and freest country in the history of our species, meant with the 2nd amendment.  this country and it's constitution were formed to create and guarantee the rights of the individual citizen, as far as they do not impune upon the rights of others.  so how should RESPONSIBLE behavior, or ownership of ANY personal property, be questioned?  take the right to bear arms from any person who shows themselves to not be deserving of the privilage.  or anyone that displays a disregard for laws or good judgement.  however the idea that banning, or restricting certain types of weapons from responsible persons, will create a safer sociaty is non-sensical.  
You speak of banning firearms to stop crime. D C has the most restrictive laws on firearms, and what have you got? The HIGHEST murder rate in the country. Every country in the world that has banned firearms from the people has had the crime rate more than double. Look at it this way. some one desires to rob one of 2 houses next to each other. 1 he knows has a firearm the other he knows there are none. Which do you think he will rob? So you take a firearm from some one. Do you realy think that will stop him from robbing some one. there are knives,hatchets, hammers,saws, and many more things he could use. Now if the person he is going to rob has a firearm the chance is slim to none. Schools are perfice for nuts because they know no one can defend their self. That is why these nuts go to schools. Have armed teachers and that will stop. These killers are cowards and attact only those that can not defend their self. Mexico has complete gun control, has that stoped the murders? Not hardly, only made it much less a problem of worring about getting shot by the person you want to kill. Wht dont we control bath tubs, more people die in them. Then there are cars, more people die in one city than in the Country form firearms. Lets ban Cars because they can kill. 1 thing overlooked, the military person that kills the most attackers is the one that grew up using firearms. It is something you cannot learn at a fireing range. It requires years of shooting. This is as stupid as banning hunting. It requires killing a  set amount every year to provent over population of wild life and causing them to starve to death or have wide spread sickness that could be transfered to humands. It looks like people get more stupid every day. Chuck  
My wife and I are in our seventies, live  miles from town.  If one or two healthy, strong young men, fresh from body building in the penitentiary broke into our home, what else but a firearm could I use to defend ourselves?  I firmly believe I have a right to defend my family and property.  The police do not protect me, they are there to apprehend the criminal once  my property/life have been violated.
Something everyone always seems to forget is that the Constitution, it's ammendments, and the subsequent Bill of Rights, all deal with and refer to  "inalienable rights".

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights. . ."

These are rights appointed to all humans, by their very nature. Rights that can not be surrendered by the individual to any governing body, or to any other individual. Our fore fathers, who believed that God was the creator of all men, believed that this was a "God given right" which no man could remove, restrict, or confine. In fact, the origin of the concept of inalienable rights came from ancient Islamic law. Even the barbarian Roman Empire supported the idea of "Natural Rights". Then the philosopher John Locke picked up the idea and wrote about the concept of Inalienable Human Rights in the 17th Century. This concept was integrated in English Law at the time of the American insurrection and bid for independance from England.

This is the historic context which affected the thinking of our fore fathers. In fact, this very concept has been credited with the very formation of our Constitution and Bill of Rights. How can this context be ignored if one is to attempt to translate the 2nd Ammendment? Proper literary translation must be done by taking into consideration the historic context. There are also quite numerous writings by the fore fathers that illucidate their thoughts on this matter.

These inalienable rights are something which can not be transfered from one individual to another, are not subject to law, credo, or dictum of any sovereign or goverment. The one consistent exception, made by nearly all organized forms of government, is the case of criminal (unlawful) behavior by an individual, where his actions may be deemed harmful to the society enlarge, in which case certain individual rights are lost.

If indeed it is true, as I believe, that the 2nd Amendment defines as an inalieanable right, the ability to "bear arms", it must be that it was intended to be consistent with 17th Century philosophy of protecting the inalienable rights to "life, liberty, and estate", as John Locke himself wrote so eloquently. No law therefore can be written, no regulation can be formulated or enforced, which restricts, removes, or inhbits this inalieanable right. The basic right, can not be alienated from the individual.

Not even, if that right afforded all men provides a means by which evil people, with mal-intent, take advantage of their rights, misuse them, and break the law. That's where goverment does have the right to step in, take action, and remove, restrict, and confine the rights of the unlawful individual for the better good of the society on the whole. But that same government CAN NOT affect the inalienable rights of it's citizens because some of its individuals choose to act unlawfully.

And by the way, the same documents afford that those allegedly unlawful individuals are innocent until proven guilty by a jury of their peers.

That's what makes America different from Europe, China, and Russia (to name but a few.)
I’m a gun owner and licensed to carry a concealed weapon for the protection of myself, my family, my home and my country. I simply do not understand the mindset of those who wish to outlaw firearm ownership by the "people" of this country.

It baffles and perplexes me to think that these persons believe that if firearms are outlawed in America, that all handgun violence will cease and the firearms will merely vanish. What color is the sky in their world?

How many times does it need to be said, "If you outlaw firearms, only outlaws will carry them." This statement is so logical that it’s actually ridiculous to resolve to use it. This is clear cut common sense that even God could not divine a better way to state it. It is illegal for criminals to own or carry firearms at present and still the "people" need firearms to protect themselves.

Fact. The language of the Second Amendment was written in an era when people spoke in a different way. We don't speak that way anymore. The whole Constitution was written in plain English; a time when our founding fathers spoke English. Our government doesn't speak English anymore. To see what I mean, compare the wording of the Constitution to any current government publication and you will instantly see what I mean.

The Second Amendments wording is pristine and perfect. It states exactly what needs to be said. It makes three points:

1) Firearms for militia purposes.
2) Firearms for the people.
3) Will never be denied.

The problem with interpretation of the Second Amendment today is in punctuation. At that time, the comma (",") was used to emphasize pause and separation of thought. Today, we do things slightly different and make good use of the semi-colon (";"). If the semi-colon were used more effectively back then the Second Amendment would have read:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State; the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Any school teacher, editor, wordsmith, writer, publisher with unbiased opinion on the subject matter guided only by their understanding of the proper penning of the written word would tell you a semi-colon belongs there.

If you handed the constitution to a school teacher, 10:1 there would have been some red notation about making the comma a semi-colon.

That little dot above the second comma removes any and all doubt as to their intended purpose of the Second Amendment. It requires nothing more than the ability to read and write to see this as fact. Any argument otherwise is motivated by fear or self interest.

If self-preservation is an interest you possess, add the semi-colon, ratify this amendment after two-hundred and sixteen years and be done with it. I’ll tell you why.

This is my opinion and mine alone. I used to view our nation as a powerful sleeping monster; one you would never want to wake up. I always held true the belief that if you harmed our nation in any way, the aggressors would pay the ultimate price with their own country and lives. I no longer share this belief and this is not to the detriment of the incredible men and women whom serve in our armed forces as they are guided and act by command from the highest authority; the court of public opinion. This court which is comprised of anti-gun and anti-war advocates alike has done everything in their power to keep retaliation for criminal and terroristic acts against our nation at a minimal. So minimal that our effectiveness as the most powerful nation on the planet is virtually null and void. Five years later we are still efforting to bring stability to the infinitesimal nation of Iraq and we still can not find one insignificant human; the gang leader of the band of terrorists behind the invasion and assault of Americans on September 11th.

This is embarrassing. They invaded our country and killed our citizens. This has not happened since Perl Harbor. We are appearing weak to the rest of the world and it is this appearance that is going to bring about the most horrific assault against this country, on “our soil” since England tried enforcing their will against the new world. You do remember that, don’t you? When the military of the American Colonies, the militia AND the “people” fought to defend their new world.

I hope you do remember this for if these weak, frightened groups of anti-gunners whom take freedom for granted and whine and complain about the “people” owning firearms have their way; this country will be defenseless. You better hope and pray to God, whomever you hold that to be, that they fail because it will be the “people” of this country that make the last stand. Oh, well, not if we’re disarmed. We’ll have to roll over like the United Kingdom, Australia and every other country whose government has disarmed their people.

The meek may inherit the Earth. The weak will hand it to them.
Maybe it would help if we tried paraphrasing into modern English:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

How about: "A well regulated militia is needed to secure each state within our nation.  Therefore, members of the militia will not be limited in their rights to bear arms."

So I think this amendment really pertains to the militia, or the military.  Otherwise, why would it start by referencing the militia?  Also, it looks like the people reference are members of the militia.  Otherwise the two ideas are independent and shouldn't be together in one very long sentence.  It also seems to imply that a person's rights to bear arms can be limited, even if those for members of the militia can not be.
Maybe it would help if we tried paraphrasing into modern English:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

How about: "A well regulated militia is needed to secure each state within our nation.  Therefore, members of the militia will not be limited in their rights to bear arms."

So I think this amendment really pertains to the militia, or the military.  Otherwise, why would it start by referencing the militia?  Also, it looks like the people reference are members of the militia.  Otherwise the two ideas are independent and shouldn't be together in one very long sentence.  It also seems to imply that a person's rights to bear arms can be limited, even if those for members of the militia can not be.
The founding fathers provided our citizens with personal rights; only one of those rights was the right to bear arms. Their motivation was to prevent our government from imposing restrictions on our citizens ability to protect themselves from a government and anything else that endangered their right to those unalienable rights guaranteed by our constitution.

Our government would never agree to legislation banning military weapons and our armed forces. So why should law abiding citizens agree to legislation banning our right to protect ourselves. If our government goes after our citizens guns then only non-citizens, military and criminals in our country will have guns.

In my mind there's something wrong with a government that would rather fight wars to provide freedom for non-US citizens than fight the wars that need to be fought for it's citizens against drugs, crime, homelessness, health care, and illegal immigration; especially since we... the law abiding citizens of our country pay the taxes to fund our government.
Look at London and England in general where in most places (if not all) the police aren't armed and guess what?  They have one of the highest major crime rates.  Banning guns or severely limiting access to guns to law abiding citizens is STUPID!  Have England's strict gun laws helped?  NO  Is this what we want in America?  NO  Law abiding citizens have the right to protect themselves, their families, property and if needed use those same guns to protect America!  The Second Amendment covers it, it's not that difficult to read.  Providing citizens with the right to guns and to stand up and fight for that right and our country.  It doesn't matter the circumstances and the time, history repeats itself.  Wow we have a Presidential candidate stating he will open our great America to the likes of Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. I'm very worried.  UH many of those citizens want any and all Americans DEAD.  Remember that little movie called Red Dawn?  It isn't the gun that kills, it's the person behind the trigger.  Be educated, responsible and accountable.  Have we all gone brain dead?  Not so long ago it was common place to have a rifle in your pick-up rifle rack and guess what we did NOT have this problem.  Did the gun change and suddenly start shooting people on it's own?  NO... wow what changed?  PEOPLE CHANGED!  Resolve the problem, harsh crimes for criminals, they should serve their time.  Don't dig your head in the sand you'll be exposed. I don't plan to be an exposed, unprotected citizen with my head in the sand.  I will protect myself, my family and my country if need be.  Protect the Second Amendment and the right to guns for law abiding citizens.
"QUOTE" The right to bear arms was written for the wilderness that confronted the US during the early days.  

Sorry Jackie - you need to review your history lessons.

The 2nd amendment was put in place to protect us from Government Oppression and was a direct response to England attempting to take away our guns prior to the revolution.   England was not concerned about the Wilderness or our need to provide food. They were concerned about losing control of the colonies and the excessive taxes without representation.
This was before the Revolutionary War even started, and was a catalyst to why it started.  The constitution was written after the war that we won.

We can never let our guard down to Government Oppression, particularly now when our elected officials have lost cite of what is best for Americans over what is best for that official or their political party.  Since so many scandals keep coming out about illegal and immoral activities.


Yes there have been innocent victims of gun violence. Yet every issue you cite above assassination, attempted assasination, drive by's, school shootings etc, are illegal already.   And in a lot of cases guns were illegally obtained to begin with.  


Existing laws did not stop these people from doing what they wanted to do.




The fact the DC still has a very high crime rate after 32 years proves that the law does not work.

What about 9/11?  What would have happened if there had been legally armed law-abiding citizens on those planes?  How many lives would have been saved?



 
The ONLY law we need to have in place is this:
Any person or organization that conspires to overrule the Constitutional rights of American's will be tried for Treason and shot. And this MUST include elected officials.  
Read the constitution, every right is a right of the people.  

Then spend some time reading what the founding fathers had to say about the second.

"Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the people's liberty's teeth." - George Washington.

"Americans need never fear their government because of the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation." - James Madison

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." - Thomas Jefferson

now, these were some pretty smart guys that KNEW what the 2nd was intended for.

For the SCOTUS to find otherwise would simply show that this country has truely lost it's freedoms.
The Militia ARE NOT the National guard.  National guard are Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force and Coast Guard on a part time scale.  But the are absolutely NOT a militia of any sorts.

Militia are the citizens of this nation... feel free to look up the actual definition of the word.
"Otherwise the two ideas are independent and shouldn't be together in one very long sentence"

By that logic, you only have the right to religion if you are peacably assembled and a member of the press.
Clearly the National Guard is not "the militia" addressed in the Second Amendment.  The members of the National Guard all take an oath of enlistment in the Federal Army or Air Force in addition to their oath to their state's Guard, and the Federal oath takes precedence.  The Supreme Court made that completely clear in 1994 with their decision in _Perpich versus Department of Defense."

Furthermore, the National Guard's weapons---all of them---are Federal property and can be removed from the National Guard's possession with no more than some administrative paperwork.  The fiction that the National Guard is "the militia" of the Second Amendment is a recent invention, put forth by those people who are unwilling to accept the notion that "We, the People" possess the ultimate authority in this country and should have the means at our disposal to guarantee that power.

If the government is the only one allowed to possess arms---in plain English, guns---how long before it decides that it should be the only one allowed to possess a "free press" or any other right stated in the Bill of Rights?
I think our second amendment guarantees out right to own and bear arms. Not just the military. It is to protect us from others that would do us harm or from a government our or others, that would restrict our rights as citizens of this fine nation.We need to enforce the laws already on the books,not make more. If our rights are restricted,only the criminal will have guns. They don't care about the laws or the rules. It only stifles the law abiding citizens rights. Look at Great Briton,or any of  the other countries that have outright gun bans. Those poor people,they have no defense at all. Even their own police force is overwhelmed. Make the criminal pay for their actions,not the law abiding people...
I guess I should have said, "Otherwise the two ideas are independent and shouldn't be together in THIS one very long sentence."  Of course not all sentences refer to only one idea.  But this THIS one is clearly refering to providing for the protection of "a free State."  Also note that "State" is capitalized: it's a proper noun.  The author was refering to individual states, not an individual's property.  It looks to me like the amendment doesn't seek to limit or to allow gun ownership by individuals, but rather it seeks to prevent the militia from being disarmed.  So it's really more of a restriction by the government to disarm itself.
I think all you gun control advocates and gun-ownership rights advocates need to get your own amendment, because this one doesn't apply to either of you.  It's really about preventing the federal government from weakening its military strength and making our freedoms vulnerable to other governments.  To argue that it's refering to an individual's right to own guns is also to argue a legal basis for vigilante justice; and to argue that it restricts gun ownership only to members of the military is reading more into what's actually written.
the right for individuals to bear arms is right under the right to have an abortion
Quote - Emma, Baltimore, MD

"So I think this amendment really pertains to the militia, or the military.  Otherwise, why would it start by referencing the militia?"

The militia as others have stated is not part of the military. In addition, the military does not provide arms to the militia. The militia must supply their own arms. As a result, even if the Second Amendment "appears" to address only the concept of a militia which is not true; the people still needs arms or a militia can not be had.

By that logic, the militia is deemed necessary and thus part of the constitution which means that the citizens "must" have arms to make ready a militia when needed.

The concept of owning a firearm serves two purposes, defense and hunting. That said; armed citizens that own firearms will use them in situations of providing food and defending their country and themselves. If they can not defend themselves against those whom would do them harm (criminals), they will not be available to be part of any needed militia for the ultimate defense of our country.

Defend our nation against all enemies foreign and domestic. A criminal is an enemy to our nation.

Any way you want to slice it, the second amendment calls for the "people" to be armed. In fact, if you think about it, the second amendment wording is very adamant about the militia being necessary. By that rationale, where is the law that "requires" citizens to be armed?

The Second Amendment speaks solely to the concept of the ordinary people being allowed to arm themselves and that right never being infringed upon, period. It says nothing about controlling or regulating firearms, denying firearms and come to think of it, nothing about the government being armed. In all fairness, I think it necessary to regulate firearms for obvious reasons. Good law abiding citizens, firearms for you; homicidal lunatics, thieves, and the insane… not so much.
While your chair was occupied for a period of time for needed personel family matters, I watched a piece last week that I have not seen or heard a follow up on.  The "Osprey" landing in the background of a piece about John McCain visiting Iraq.  By the way, Ann & Lester do a fantastic job, like yourself in bringing us up to speed on the breaking news of the day.  
What I want you to do is think.

The popluar debate is as to whether or not the right to bear arms is conditional upon participation in the militia.  Nobody is asking the obvious question:  what constitutes a militia?  

In modern times, we presume the militia to be the National Guard or some similar state-sponsered military organizations.  I would argue that the militia is a volunteer army whose ranks are filled by citizens, regardless of any affiliation with the government.

Any study of American history and the consitutional convention will reveal that there was great concern regarding the inevitable swath of tyranny and oppression brought on by the goovernemtn against the people.  The founders were very wise men in that they understood no government could ever be fully trusted and that, in fact, democracy alone was no guarantee against tyranny.  This is why the Bill of Rights was composed in the first place.  There was great debate regarding the Bill of Rights.  Some argued that it was unnecessary and that the constitution afforded the people with the legal framework to ensure their government acted in the peoples' interests.  Others argued that there had to be some basic definition of inalienable rights that the government could never violate.  As an example of why this sort of thing is necessary, imagine where we would be today without the clearly documented right to free speech.  A great many times the first amendment has given us the right to expose our government in ways that they certainly did not like and surely would have oppressed if possible.  

The second amendment addresses the simple notion that a well-armed populace is difficult to oppress.  The militia, the citizen army, is a real deterrent against tyranny.  That tyranny may well come from Washington or, just as easily, Columbus Ohio.  There is no distinction that the militia be on the leash of a state vice the leash of the federal government.  The militia is the people, in and of themselves, fully independent of any political body.  

The people are the militia.  Ultimately, when all else fails, it is the right of the people to bear arms and organize themselves into a militia that gives any government pause in its intentions to oppress the people.  

Self-defense against criminals, hunting animals and showing off collections behind glass are inconsequential benefits of the second amendment.  The heart of the matter is our ability to say "no" when the government goes too far.  

The notion that regulating the right is somehow in the interest of protecting public safety is a fraud.  The mob, Al Quaeda and two bit thieves will always break the law and they will always have guns.  Forfeiting our right to arm ourselves against an oppressive government will solve none of these problems.  But it will certainly cause more, compared to which criminal acts will shrink to insignificance.

The other phrase nobody is asking about is "security of a free state".  It does not say "security of the state"; the word "free" is in their for a reason.  State autonomy is not the issue.  Nazi Germany was autonomous, but hardly free.  A free state is one in which the blessings of individual liberty are preserved.  The militia, again, is a protection against threats to liberty.  There is no presumption that the governemt is exempt from presenting that very threat.

-MJL




I will not lay down my firearms at the directive of a tyranical government, any government.  Bush has taken away our rights of privacy, the IRS has taken our money, if we give up our guns, life as we know it
(that would be what little freedom we have left) will be over.  It is past time for a new revolution in this once great nation.  It's past time to remove the solialists and communists that now run this country.  I have no doubt in my heart, mind, or soul, that we now have the most corrupt, self-serving, piss poor excuse for a goverment than at any point in this nation's history.  Bush is a warmonger, using fear tactics to take away the rights of every citizen - so he can contiue to profit from his never ending war in Iraq.  Has anyone ever looked into his interest in Haliburton?
You should.
If we look at our current-day armed forces as a whole, it includes the military, the national guard, police officers, security guards, etc.  In order for it to be necessary for a militia to suddenly form, something catalysmic must have happened to our armed forces as a whole.  While it's conceivable that somethng like that could have happened in the early days of our countries existence, for something like that to happen today would mean that we had bigger problems going on than what a few (or many) citizens with handguns and rifles could handle.  Or, if we're talking about a circumstance in which our armed forces are not impeded by hostile forces, but ordinary citizens feel the need to form a militia, then we're really talking about a posee or a group of vigilantes.  So if this amendment is meant to guarantee an individual's right to own a gun so that a militia could be quickly formed, then it also guarantees the right for a vigilante mob to form, react, and kill based on perceived threats whether real or imagined.  Again, I think this amendment was really meant to prevent the country from making itself vulnerable to hostile causes by disarming itself.  I think if you guys want a constitutional amendment guaranteeing your right to bear arms, you've got to come up with one, because this one doesn't do it.
I'll address a single point, i.e., guns in national parks. As a frequent visitor to our wilderness areas, I feel much safer with a handgun ready to protect myself from ferocious animals and ferocious people. I believe I have that right. And please don't tell me that facing a pissed off grizzly bear while I am unarmed is the price I must pay for being in the wilderness. I have just as much right as the bear to be in the great outdoors. Moreover, I would never harm man or beast out of malicious intent unless I faced imminent threat of bodily harm to myself or fellow man. Yes, I do and will continue to pack a handgun, embracing the concept of "civil disobedience" if necessary.
The bill of rights was written for individuals. If it was written for a large group then the freedom of speech means nothing to an individual. The second amendment was written for individuals only or it would not be in the bill of rights. If you understand what the bill of rights are for then all this seems pointless. Read the Federalist Papers and you will educate yourself on this issue.
Maybe the second amendment should be repealed on the grounds that its applications are outdated, and a new amendment should replace it.
Washington DC already had one run at gun control.  They restricted the militia so much there weren't enough rifles for even half the members.  They weren't even allowed to practice with live ammunition much less have it in there possession.  But that was January 1812.  What could go wrong?


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